Devolution of a Literary Correspondence
One of the strangest corollaries of being a literary journal editor is being made aware from time to time of how many contributors there are out there silently hating you for a multitude of perceived offenses, however real or unreal. The below correspondence is real, but identifying facts have been changed to preserve anonymity of contributor/correspondent. Note that I, Rebecca Wolff, was the first to get truly offensive, but also note that I have developed, over the years, a deficit of patience with contributors who act as though I am somehow out to get them. Also note that I have given myself the last word here; for all I know XXX will choose to ignore my final command and will speak to me again. I’ll keep you posted.
*
February 14
Hi Rebecca Wolff,
Recently you were kind enough to accept two of my poems for the current issue of Fence. Do you send out contributors copies? Just wondering because I haven’t received anything yet.
Thanks
XXX XXXX
XX E. XXXXX Street Apt 16
New York, NY 1xxxx
PS Saw the website. Thanks for posting XXXXXXXX!
*
February 14
XXX,
Did you used to live in XXXXXXXX, NJ?
R
*
February 14
Yes. My parents live there, so if you sent it there I will get it eventually.
XXX
*
April 6
Rebecca Wolff:
Well, I finally found the time to pick up a copy of Fence—not easy, since I work three grueling shit jobs, and don’t have time to track these things down—and it’s a good issue.
Regan Good’s poem The Atlantic House, in particular, is a knockout. I can’t say the same for the way you treat your contributors, though. I edit a XXX-page journal and even though it’s tough on me financially, I make sure every contributor gets a free copy.
The fact that you’re backed by a university and still can’t fork up a lousy contributor’s copy is unforgivable. The fact that you couldn’t even answer my simple question as to whether or not you provide complimentary copies is even worse. I guess my question wasn’t intellectually-ambitious or post-post-post-avant enough for you.
XXX XXXX
*
April 6
See below; eat shit and die.
Sincerely,
Rebecca Wolff
“February 14
XXX,
Did you used to live in XXXXXXXX, NJ?
R
February 14
Yes. My parents live there, so if you sent it there I will get it eventually.
XXX”
*
April 20
What is this supposed to mean? I was just at my parents last week and no Fence, and this months after it came out. Is “eat shit and die” your way of saying you sent it to me? [Editor’s note: What I should have said was: “No, eat shit and die is my way of saying check your facts, you corroded node, before getting on your high horse to send me an email accusing me of not doing my job.] If you DID send it to me, you could’ve just said so and all this could have been avoided. Like I said, it never got to me. I’ve supported you for years, buying your mag and sticking up for it when my writer-friends basically condemned it.
Let me share a brief anecdote:
One spring day when I was sixteen, my friend and I were posting flyers at XXXXX Academy (private school for rich kids) for a concert our metal band was playing. The board was in the dining hall and soon as we walked into the room–two skinny long-hairs–the place went dead. Then someone yelled “Throw them out!” and we were basically driven out on a rail. It wasn’t traumatic at all, but the memory has remained for its novelty, I think it’s kind of funny, actually. But more to the point, I’ve always thought of that dining hall as being the equivalent of Fence (read: snobbery). You’ve proven me right.
XXX
*
April 20
XXX,
I just don’t take kindly to receiving accusatory mail. Read your email to me and you will see that you are attacking me for not responding to your initial query when, in fact, as I showed you in my response (and that’s why I said “E. S. & D,” because I was proving you wrong), I DID respond to your query. Yes, I sent the issue to the NJ address; I don’t know why it never reached there but all you had to do was write back politely and say that the issue never reached there and I would gladly send another. Instead you wrote me a snotty note–I am not responsible for your or anyone’s neurotic complex about high school–implying that I had not responded to your query, when in fact I had.
If you would like to give me your correct address I will send the issue there.
RW
*
April 21
Becky Coyote,
God you are a vile human being. Saw your photo at Norton Poets Online and in Poets and Writers–your looks match up with your personality perfectly. No wonder you have issues. And I feel sorry for your kid–I’m sure he’ll grow up to be mean and ugly, just like his mommy.
*
April 21
You’re a total loser. Never speak to me again.
April 22nd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
That’s today’s metal for you. Metallica whines about Napster, this guy whines about his freebie. I blame “Guitar Hero.” And George Bush (well, why not?)
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Is this xchange a joke?
April 23rd, 2008 at 9:52 am
I’m sorry you have to deal with that. It’s horrible. Most writers I know are good/nice people. Most people love FENCE and what you do.
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:26 am
I can certainly imagine a writer developing a defecit of patience with an editor like you. You really come off the worse in this exchange, particularly since you’re the one putting it on the internet.
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Thank you. I have personally dealt with many of these kinds of emails (several today in fact) and reading your post made me feel much, much better.
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm
[…] Fence Portal » Blog Archive » Devolution of a Literary Correspondence Don’t mess with Fence, that’s all I’m saying. […]
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Awesome, loved it. My goal this week is to use ESAD on a worthy recipient too.
And for the record, what a tool XXX was. Geez, buddy, you write poetry, can’t get over high school, and want respect and rewards too? I want a new kitten but I’m not holding my breath waiting for that either…
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
[…] example of douche-baggery, a contributor gets into a tissy fit with the editor of Fence. Go read. It’s fun. (Via Maud […]
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Good lord. Are either one of these characters writers-poets or even real? Can’t believe it.
April 23rd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
I don’t get it. You didn’t reply that you sent the copy - you just asked if he used to live at XXXX. If I’d received that email, I would have no idea if you meant “No, I haven’t sent it but I will - the address I have is XXXX” or “Yes, I sent it to XXXX”. And since XXX waits nearly two months before emailing again to express his frustration — I really can’t grasp how you feel you were wronged in that exchange, so much so as to reply so rudely with ESAD.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
So…did they get their contributor’s copy or not? I’m on the edge of my seat here…
April 24th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Gwen, thanks for asking. When I asked XXX if he lived in that particular town, he replied in such a way that it implied that he understood that I’d sent it there. So I left it at that. His next email to me, by my lights, should have said something like: “So, it’s been two months and I haven’t received it at my parents’. Can you please send it again.” Instead of the rude attack he sent.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Seriously unprofessional.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Maybe, just maybe, this is a case of Premature E.S.and D. - Very common, but quite easily cured if caught early enough.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I’m an editor myself and deal with lots of difficult contributors, but as someone who, I would assume, expects the best from your writers, you do not take equal time to express yourself very clearly. I find this indicative of so many editors today who feel that are some kind of gods, deigning to publish the work of the mediocre masses. Do we forget that without contributors we would have no publications, nor would people be soliciting us for interviews in magazines and appearances at conferences. The poor contributors get nothing but a contributor copy they can hold in their hands and perhaps show to a few friends. Yes, this fellow could have handled himself better, but so could you have. And then publishing on the Internet to add insult to injury.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Well, rwolff, I will tell you that I am sorry you had to deal with someone taking a professional dispute and making it a personal attack. Lame. On the upside, you are now somewhat of a temporary professional hero for me with the whole Eat Shit and Die response. Granted it was a little hostile and would have been better delivered after the personal attack, but it was still humorous/appropriate.
XXX, I just dont get, really. Why be so rude over something like contributor’s copy? It’s not like your paycheck was never sent. Just chill out a bit. And by the way, you got poem’s published. Shouldn’t that be enough? Some of us are still overjoyed when something gets published just knowing that someone will read our words. If you want a copy so badly to show your friends your name in print at cocktail parties, go buy a copy. Let’s face the facts, you are a writer in a time when not many people read much of anything much less literary journals. Damn, guy, just be glad you got published. You are a poet. Start acting like one.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
XXX is a bit unstable, if not severely uptight. As someone with very few publications in my young career, but someone trying extremely hard to get published, yes it really sucks that the whole transaction seems impersonal at times. Especially if you wait and wait months past any journals reading time and they send a standard rejection, or some b.s. along the line of “just not the right fit.”
I think that XXX is missing a pretty important point — their work was published by FENCE. Therefore, I don’t see how the outhouse can complain so virulently.
Sure, I’d expect an editor to have more decorum, but an editor is a human being, too. If XXX was a little more polite a little longer then I’d be super ashamed of Mrs. Wolff’s response. However, I agree that his own response to the New Jersey reply implied that he understood her insinuation. If it were me, and I hadn’t gotten my copy, and I didn’t think I was getting one –just buy one and be happy to be in print.
To other writers, even if editors “act like gods,” as someone replied before me, does that mean that writers should also develop such a demanding attitude? I’ve been waiting eight months to hear back on my poems at FENCE, and I’ve waited longer at other places. I think a writer has a right to know the status of their work, but ask with a bit more politeness.
The first rule of trying to get published sans nepotism is to put your personal feelings in the top drawer. Sure, whine about how it sucks in your own personal space, but when it comes to the actual transactions you have with a publisher, these journals and editors aren’t out to get you –unless you act like an outhouse, then you deserved to be shat on.
April 26th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
I’d just like to note that I find the idea of an editor telling a contributor to “Eat shit and die,” no matter the reason, reprehensible.
“And for the record, what a tool XXX was. Geez, buddy, you write poetry, can’t get over high school, and want respect and rewards too? I want a new kitten but I’m not holding my breath waiting for that either…”
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for XXX to have expected a contributor copy. Nor, for that matter, professionalism. At this point, I’m not sure XXX finally received either.
April 27th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I don’t know. It seems as though both sides were out of line here. XXX’s personal attacks and high school sob story were totally inappropriate. So was Ms. Wolff’s response, though. As Gwen pointed out, that first email was completely ambiguous. It just asked for an address, it didn’t say “your copy should be mailed by (date), if you don’t get it, email me back.” A little clarity at the beginning might have done a lot to prevent the situation from escalating.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence (pardon the pun) here. I’ve been an editor and have had writers howling at the moon at me. I’ve also been a writer who has had editors try to sell me down the river, conveniently “forget” to send my checks or copies, etcetera. Professionalism works both ways.
For Gary Sheppard’s comment: it’s not even remotely unreasonable to expect a contributor’s copy. Of course, being published is a thrill. No, it’s not enough. I shouldn’t have to pay to see my own words in print. If the magazine is selling my work to the public, they can at the very least throw a copy my way. A literary magazine that does not think enough of its writers to provide them with copies and/or payment isn’t worth supporting (I’m not including Fence here; I rather like Fence. I’m generalizing).
April 27th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
While the Tortured Poet was indeed being a little abrasive in his letter to you, it’s clear that this guy is an insecure little twat who just needs some affirmation from the world. He’s a poet, after all. That doesn’t excuse his hysterical outburst; HOWEVER - “Eat shit and die?” If I were Ms. Wolff, I would be a wee bit ashamed of that one, and wouldn’t have been so quick to post up this little email exchange for the world to see.
I mean, Ms. Wolff, granted you got what you wanted - ass-kissing responses from people telling you they “love what you do,” and some sort of affirmation that what you did was right… but come on. A one-line “Did you used to live in XXXXXXXX, NJ?” doesn’t indicate *anything* except that you asked “Did you used to live in XXXXXXXX, NJ?” A short one-line email saying, “I sent the copy to XXXXXXXXX NJ” wouldn’t have taken more than a minute, I presume, to type and send.
THEN, Mr. Tortured Poet wouldn’t be so damn tortured. Honestly, it was a misunderstanding that *you* could’ve avoided. I don’t know why everyone’s jumping all over Tortured Poet’s case - granted, he showed himself to be a juvenile, whinging loser in the end but I think you could’ve spared yourself the agony by being clear in your communication. Also, you had the option to not respond in kind. I mean, seriously… “eat shit and die?”
I am in complete agreement with nbc’s comments above. Editors are not gods, and posting this whole email exchange online is juvenile and whingy, at best. Is it any wonder that you attract similar contributors?!
I was directed here from maudnewton.com, and am not the type to post responses randomly (especially since I’m not a frequent reader of Fence), but for some reason, this whole thing really bugs me. The smug editor patting herself on the back for being rude, and the minions in the comments section bowing down to rude behaviour and giving it the jolly ol’ thumbs-up. And here I used to think publishing was a sacred institution…
April 28th, 2008 at 10:12 am
This is atrocious! I can’t believe people behave like this. The high school anecdote is classic-what a tool. Nothing like feeling entitled.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Wow. I pity the poor poets of the world if this is the kind of behavior they have to endure to get themselves published. I’m astonished that you’re proud enough of such a juvenile response to post it publicly — I excused any of XXX’s whining after that, and in fact I agreed with it.
I’m an editor, far from perfect, often impatient with overly needy writers, but this serves as a welcome reminder that, as NBC noted above, we are not gods. We should be the grown-ups in the writer-editor relationship, not the mud-slingers.
April 28th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Wow. I can’t believe you still have a job. I won’t call your behavior juvenile because I have children who do not behave that way, ever.
So you stressed out, the proper thing to do was not post the exchange on the internet, but write an apology. A sincere, groveling apology. Clearly the writer had thought his copy would be at his parents and when it wasn’t realized you had never given him a direct answer.
And Don, if you want to see folks who feel entitled, look to the editor who felt entitled to behave this way, not the poet who was gracious and thanked the magazine and ASKED if they provided copies. Stop sucking up and scratch this one off your list for submissions. No one deserves to be treated this way.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:27 am
In response to Md,
Thanks for your comment. I dont remember writing that it was unreasonable that an author expected to receive a copy of the magazine. I apologize for not being clear enough and thus allowing you to read into the statement I was making. Sure, I agree with you. If a copy of the magazine is promised in compensation, then one should be sent. Simple. But I will repeat what I wrote earlier: just chill out a bit. That’s all I was saying. I have a small problem with authors that are obviously so good at writing that they have time to make personal attacks on people for a simple misunderstanding.
I am also sorry that you believe that being published isn’t enough. That is unfortunate. Call me old fashioned or an idealist, but I think a very important question to ask is: Why are you writing? Is it because you have something original to say? Or, is it because you want your words/name in print? Because you want compensation?
But, again, to unmuddy the waters of discourse, I totally agree that promises should be kept and compensation should be made; but, as a writer, XXXX should have known enough about life that shit happens all the time and that a little patience goes a long way.
I hope this clears the issue up for you, Md. Thanks.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:41 am
rebecca wolff, to my mind, seems to be turning into an awful human being. in this email exchange and in the editor’s notes of recent fences, r. wolff sounds like someone who resents having to be involved with fence enterprises.
also, i have loved fence mag in the past, but it seems to have been domesticated. bring back ben marcus plz!
April 30th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
G.F. Sheppard, Jr, thank you for your polite and reasoned response. Why do I write? Why do any of us write? Because the words are there and they need to be written. For me, this is not just a hobby. I’m a professional. If I write something for my own pleasure and I post it on my blog, of course, I don’t expect any compensation, I’m sharing it freely, and it IS enough for it to be out there in the world. If I go through the motions of submitting it to a professional publication, though, I expect it to be treated professionally, and no, in that case, the byline is not enough.
The whole “you’re published, that should be enough, so just buy a copy and stop whining” argument does not hold water for me. In this day and age, if being in print is all you want, if having your words read is the goal–you don’t need Fence or any other literary magazine. You can put together your own little collection, have it published on cafepress or iUniverse, and sell it on Amazon right alongside the Random House books. If you want your words read, you can get a blog or a free website, market it well and garner millions of hits.
If you’re choosing to submit your work to a literary magazine, in the face of all that, it’s for many reasons–to get published, yes, but also to earn a respectable credit, to put your work in front of other editors who might not read the blogs–to earn some street cred, if you will, in the sometimes snobby literary world, if you will. Don’t forget that these magazines BUILD their reputations on the backs of the material they publish. One of their writers earns a Pushcart Prize nod? It reflects on the publication as well as the author. They benefit more than you do, at times. You’re bartering your work. The copies you receive are not simply to “show at cocktail parties” (I don’t know writers who actually do that), but to build your portfolio.
Along with that, if you’re submitting to literary magazines, you do expect a certain amount of professionalism. As I mentioned, I do not condone the way XXX flew off the handle, but I think the ball was in Ms WOlffe’s court, and that if she had answered that first email clearly, the situation would not have escalated as it did. The writer’s first emails to Ms Wolffe were professional and polite; she did not respond in kind. I will never submit to Fence again, because, after reading this exchange, I’m not sure that the editors of this publication can be trusted to treat ANY contributor fairly and professionally.
The best to you, GS–
April 30th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Re the whole ES&D thing: C’mon, Rebecca, if your whole gig is about challenge and idiosyncrasy and intelligence, do something challening and idiosyncratic and intelligent — publish the infamous booby cover again with the words Eat Shit & Die plastered across her boobliness. (Do I get a free copy?)
August 18th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
so the moral is don’t submit to fence? or don’t ask for a copy? is this even a real exchange? it’s not really that funny if it’s fiction, and if it’s real, only editor comes out looking like a moron. editors have to stay on the good side of writers too, it doesn’t just go one way, even if it seems like editors have all the control. i used to intern at a lit mag, there is a lot of turnover for unprofessional editors.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:55 am
if i see your poems in the sluch pile at XXX review, your pedestrian stuff is getting red ink to fullest nasty extent. if it’s one think editorial assistants hate more than pain in the ass writers, it’s ego trippy pain in the ass editors who provoke said writers.
(but very nice classy photo by the way. nothing wrong at all with your looks.)